Need Advice - Poly or JC - and what are the implications?

I know that this is a sensitive topic but i need real advice. I have a boy who will go to JC or Poly next year.
I cant really rely on the brochures since most of them will just put the best foot forward.... so pls be frank.

thanks.

Juan. It really depend. But can tell u I went poly despite having good results in o level. I regreted not gng jc. First of all it's shortcut to a degree. I am not saying degree is everything, but it is in fact a key or rather short cut to attain goals.

Furthermore gng to jc means that it's easier to enter local uni. Nus n ntu are among top 50 n 100 respectively, smu unranked because it's considered as biz scool for those tankers but still equally good. Anyway it boils down to ur kid still. My advice is only advise.

I would have gone to JC if my grades were better, my O levels were terrible and I had to settle for an engineering diploma.

If you look at numbers, poly is getting popular. It offers diplomas with names of the industry that your kid can choose now. The drawback of that is that a 16yr old does not know what career he wants yet.

Secondary schools will still push for JC because the ranking tables rank by JC admission I think. In reverse to the point made above, he might know a little more about what he wants to do when he is of 18yrs.

But if he wants to start working after diploma, that is a good choice as it is better than an A-level cert. After he enters the workforce, he can further his education either part-time or quit to do full time after 3 years work. A mature student may absorb better the university education, plus it is easier to find diploma jobs than degree jobs. I am thinking maybe a degree with some experience as a diploma holder may be a good thing, but that is up to personal perspectives on how hard or easy it is to find a graduate job placement.

I also agree with liplip. Providing good 2 point of view. In summary, maybe dilpoma is too early, child might not know career path. 2nd is diploma then with work and degree makes ur child a good asset on future.

I seem to fall in both categories liplip mentioned.

i was from a junior college. as far as university admission is concerned, jc is a better choice. but if your child is not a bookworm/studious type, DON'T GO to jc. it will be in a terrible mess.

in fact, jc is losing its popularity fast. first of all, the fourth poly-university is coming up, only for poly students. they now have more rooms to enter a university. secondly, jc is damn stressful and its cert is lousy. thirdly, your teenage child may not like jc's rigid and lack of freedom schooling environment. and lastly, polys are opening many new courses that are interesting and attractive.

go to poly, 3 years later, with the fourth uni coming up, and the 3 existing unis are beginning to recognise poly students, i believe the entry to uni for poly students is easier.

looking at the situation now, in fact, i think some JCs may close down in a few years time.

but at my time, i preferred JC because i don't want to get looked down by relatives and friends. poly that time was like an "upper class ITE". JC was perceived by others to be a place for better students.

after poly, what is the possibility of going uni? what is required?

after jc, is it only going to uni, can one divert to poly?

or lets say , u enter jc, if u ddont like it, can u transfer to poly?

all these scenarios, what is the possible consequences and costs?

JuanST wrote:after poly, what is the possibility of going uni? what is required?

top 5% from each polytechnic can go Uni. if your child is studying business course in poly, when go NUS/NTU/SMU business course, can straight away go Uni Year 2.

after jc, is it only going to uni, can one divert to poly?

if want to go poly after jc, my suggestion is, don't even touch jc as your child would be wasting 2 years already. if go jc still want to go poly, your child have to make a choice after jc Year 1. but again, it wastes a year. might as well go to poly after o levels.

or lets say , u enter jc, if u ddont like it, can u transfer to poly?

cannot say regret going to jc. as usual, if your child is studious or love books and studying many hours a day, go jc. if not, have to go poly.

all these scenarios, what is the possible consequences and costs?

either jc or poly. if go jc then poly or poly then jc = time and money wasted. as a parent, i would want to see my child graduates as quickly as possible and start working so that my burden is reduced.

but as a former jc student, my experience is that, if want to go jc, you have to push your child until his head is covered with cold sweat. it is stressful but as current, jc has a higher percentage going to Uni. 70% from JCs can go Uni vs 30% from polys.

Y not just let ur boy decides himself?

hahaha. yes, let your child makes the decision. he is 17 this year, right? it's time to be responsible for his own future already.

Fortec wrote:Y not just let ur boy decides himself?

he will decide for himself.... but i want to make sure that he understands all his options.
for me to know if he understands all his options, i need to understand first.... else how can i verify....

he is quite mature for his age.... sometimes i think he is more mature than me...

JuanST wrote:

Fortec wrote:Y not just let ur boy decides himself?

he will decide for himself.... but i want to make sure that he understands all his options.
for me to know if he understands all his options, i need to understand first.... else how can i verify....

he is quite mature for his age.... sometimes i think he is more mature than me...

hmm... your 1970s edu system is different from today. why not you call up MOE for further enquries?

more mature than you? lol... then no need to advice him already. he will advice you on what to do after you hit 50.

i dun want to repeat my mistakes.... since no one was guiding me during the time that i made these decisions, i took an unknown path, good thing it turned out well... lucky me....

lol, u r still mature lah although u just want koup rims n new gear knob for Xmas...

in the 1st place, wat course ur boy interested in?

best not hesitate and wait till o-level results then decide where to go...sometimes it's not a bad idea following his peers

The Blue Cruiser wrote:

JuanST wrote:

Fortec wrote:Y not just let ur boy decides himself?

he will decide for himself.... but i want to make sure that he understands all his options.
for me to know if he understands all his options, i need to understand first.... else how can i verify....

he is quite mature for his age.... sometimes i think he is more mature than me...

hmm... your 1970s edu system is different from today. why not you call up MOE for further enquries?

more mature than you? lol... then no need to advice him already. he will advice you on what to do after you hit 50.

what 1970's u referring to ur father issit? ....
i read all the moe sites oredi.... as for my boy, he may be more mature... but i am more knowledgeable still....
when i hit 50, i expect him to advice me, but i will still make the decision.....

kysoong wrote:lol, u r still mature lah although u just want koup rims n new gear knob for Xmas...

in the 1st place, wat course ur boy interested in?

best not hesitate and wait till o-level results then decide where to go...sometimes it's not a bad idea following his peers

he is good with maths and english...what he likes.... he can write good stories... what he wants to do... he also does not know yet....

let him decide, but guide him along.

cos i also got no one to guide. I merely followed by elder sisters.

they go poly I also go.
I had good results, but didnt know what can I do with it because i have no guidance. (Last time Poly very IN one ok.)

so now at least ur son is fortunate, u can guide him

Regarding the poly to JC before Uni, this one is misunderstood. Because poly diploma is a tertiary cert, so ideally it can allow your child to enter any university degree program (please double-check), but minus advance standing (2nd year entry) if the course is not directly relevant. For example take business diploma go enter engineering degree. For competitive degree programs where seats are limited, you have to be the top 5% of the diploma graduates in the same field of study and the universities are happy to take these students because a high percentage of these top poly students finish with first class honours. Perhaps you can predict if your kid has the potential to be in top 5%...

The drawback is that you take one more year to get out of school, but you can also say that you have 2 different major fields of study in the 2 major educational certificates. But I wouldn't know how it measures up to those that boast double masters degree.

And one thing about regret, we always regret choices... too many reasons that we can find for any action we do. My advice is to not let your son know that there are alternatives to use when regret comes in. Instead make a proper decision up front, and then stick through it.

Or you can be like me loh... go for 3 months JC 1st... see if I like it then decide if Poly or JC when results come out..

JuanST wrote:

what 1970's u referring to ur father issit? ....
i read all the moe sites oredi.... as for my boy, he may be more mature... but i am more knowledgeable still....
when i hit 50, i expect him to advice me, but i will still make the decision.....

aren't you are in your late 40s? your time was the 1970s edu system? or 60s?

but just to add one thing, for a boy, go 2-year JC and then 3-year Poly is quite a waste of time. imagine if he goes NS at 19. 22 goes to poly. 25 then study Uni leh... many JC girls go at 19. can be their old brother already.

then some more, how long can you support him? you might retire one day, right? that means you have to work till he graduates from Uni, which is many years later.

Last time Poly and JC had a large difference in term start, but now Poly starts in April and application of the polytechnic course start in mid-Jan. If you try JC, you might be very late to apply Poly, leading to not getting a seat in popular courses.

The Blue Cruiser wrote:

JuanST wrote:

what 1970's u referring to ur father issit? ....
i read all the moe sites oredi.... as for my boy, he may be more mature... but i am more knowledgeable still....
when i hit 50, i expect him to advice me, but i will still make the decision.....

aren't you are in your late 40s? your time was the 1970s edu system? or 60s?

u are reminiscing ur old times .....

The Blue Cruiser wrote:

JuanST wrote:

what 1970's u referring to ur father issit? ....
i read all the moe sites oredi.... as for my boy, he may be more mature... but i am more knowledgeable still....
when i hit 50, i expect him to advice me, but i will still make the decision.....

aren't you are in your late 40s? your time was the 1970s edu system? or 60s?

otot... go back to topic.....

ermmm...
i think u got quite alot of info already.
liplip n blue gave good advice.

maybe lets hear what u think?

i will not formulate any decision.... i will lay it out to him as all of u have described then i will ask him to consider....

when he makes a preference, then he will tell me why he has decided that way and what is the reason/situation that influenced him to make that prediliction.

am a strict father but i know that my son is coming on his own an i have to make sure that his opinion and views are heard for things that will definitely impact his life....

after he lay down his reasons, only then i will formulate my opinions...

then we will decide....

i want him to move forward with his eyes wide open.....

ok, sounds like a plan.

so when ur son grads, get a good pay, remember to ask him to share.

we help ur family in life choices.
hahahahaah!!!!!

so democratic....

lukester wrote:ok, sounds like a plan.

so when ur son grads, get a good pay, remember to ask him to share.

we help ur family in life choices.
hahahahaah!!!!!

kaypoh ah?

lukester wrote:ok, sounds like a plan.

so when ur son grads, get a good pay, remember to ask him to share.

we help ur family in life choices.
hahahahaah!!!!!

remind me when the time comes.....

JuanST wrote:

lukester wrote:ok, sounds like a plan.

so when ur son grads, get a good pay, remember to ask him to share.

we help ur family in life choices.
hahahahaah!!!!!

remind me when the time comes.....

don't know whether you are still in this forum by then...

ok, let's stick to the topic. don't later the son asks the father how come his forte friends are so kaypoh and weird.

not kaypoh lah

more like kay kiang
hahaha

IMHO, the implication can be quite clear. Your main worries are for his future. So think like an employer. And look around for clues.

In the past being a Uni grad guarantees success in the 80 to 90s. Now u throw a stone, u hit a uni grad. As such it might end up to be a "requirement" to get a good job on time to come. This is not to offend anyone but if we want to help the young ones then we hv to think from the employers pov and not from what we think.

of course still depends on the young ones.

haiz..
should be born earlier...

lukester wrote:haiz..
should be born earlier...

life was easier then because the economy was labor-based.
now we are in knowledge based economy.

Yeah, if I was born earlier I would not arrive at the working world in the time of recession and bubbles...

Knowledge economy? I think the world is just fooling itself... How can the whole world have growth non-stop...? We better start encouraging Singaporean people to start producing items for local consumption - self-sufficient is most important.

liplip wrote:Yeah, if I was born earlier I would not arrive at the working world in the time of recession and bubbles...

Knowledge economy? I think the world is just fooling itself... How can the whole world have growth non-stop...? We better start encouraging Singaporean people to start producing items for local consumption - self-sufficient is most important.

it is a term that encompasses everything and covers nothing at the same time. ahhh... difficult to explain....

this is a simplistic representation :

old school : when u eat dinner - u pay the restaurant ur bill in cash....
new school : u do the same thing... u pay using ur credit card....

differences : scope of economy (jobs needed to support both scenarios)
old school : cook, business owner, diner
new school : all three + banks, visa/mastercard , card embossers, pos machine makers, programmers, systems analysts, financial analyst, risk analysts and so on and so on....

the same transaction, different scope....

who loves studying? you don't like, i don't like. we are forced to compete for Uni places that crap. now it is like, if you don't go Uni, you can't achieve much in life. promotions and higher pay are not yours to enjoy. sounds harsh but this is sg the merit-based country.

unless you can be like sim wong woo (what's his correct name?) who started the creative tech with just a diploma cert. if you want to be an employee but without a degree, life can be hard if you have a family. if you are lucky, you meet a boss who promotes you based on your performance, not your cert.

yeah.

my department all minimum degree cert liao.

gone were my sister's days when diploma can bring u places.



I am thinking of a Master soon.

For children's education planning for some of my clients who has very young kids, i'll advise them on this also. What has became the "basic" requirements and most would agree on that basic degree is like a diploma in the 80s.

but how relevant is a MBA in the real world? Am asking because my HR has just asked if I want to go for one on top of my MSc

I know poly grads who are great in their jobs, and uni grads who I wouldn't dare ask to go buy coffee coz he'll come back with Milo! I think a lot of it has to do with the person also... although I do concede having a degree does open more doors

much of the cert is just to meet the job requirement only and does not relevant to the real world. for example, if you want to be a businessman, what does o-level physics and chemistry mean? and what does algebraic maths help for the business where a hawkerman's simple maths can do the solving? so to say, the cert is just for show only after you have passed through the gates.

it sounds stupid but this is sg. and getting a degree is not easy also. it is very competitive and stressful in uni. now even worse when there are so many foreign students to compete with the locals. some can't take it and leave uni after 3 years, not getting the 'basic' honors degree. more studious ones will go for masters and even PHD but... not everyone can do that.

another thing is, making money is not about studying well and getting good certs.

a 1st class honors civil servant earning at $4000 a month loses out to an education-less businessman with bright ideas earning at $10000 a month. sounds lame but it's real world. of course not all businessmen can be successful but successful businesses are originated from failures.

JuanST wrote:

Fortec wrote:Y not just let ur boy decides himself?

he will decide for himself.... but i want to make sure that he understands all his options.
for me to know if he understands all his options, i need to understand first.... else how can i verify....

he is quite mature for his age.... sometimes i think he is more mature than me...

great daddy!

The Blue Cruiser wrote:who loves studying? you don't like, i don't like. we are forced to compete for Uni places that crap. now it is like, if you don't go Uni, you can't achieve much in life. promotions and higher pay are not yours to enjoy. sounds harsh but this is sg the merit-based country.

unless you can be like sim wong woo (what's his correct name?) who started the creative tech with just a diploma cert. if you want to be an employee but without a degree, life can be hard if you have a family. if you are lucky, you meet a boss who promotes you based on your performance, not your cert.

I so agree with you...
coming to think of it, think luck plays a big big part too in life..

JuanST wrote:

liplip wrote:Yeah, if I was born earlier I would not arrive at the working world in the time of recession and bubbles...

Knowledge economy? I think the world is just fooling itself... How can the whole world have growth non-stop...? We better start encouraging Singaporean people to start producing items for local consumption - self-sufficient is most important.

it is a term that encompasses everything and covers nothing at the same time. ahhh... difficult to explain....

this is a simplistic representation :

old school : when u eat dinner - u pay the restaurant ur bill in cash....
new school : u do the same thing... u pay using ur credit card....

differences : scope of economy (jobs needed to support both scenarios)
old school : cook, business owner, diner
new school : all three + banks, visa/mastercard , card embossers, pos machine makers, programmers, systems analysts, financial analyst, risk analysts and so on and so on....

the same transaction, different scope....

Stunning example. But I don't think that explains knowledge economy, I tend to think that knowledge economy refers to how many IPs you hold and that you can charge money for. Royalties are always faster money than labour, that is why Singapore wants to go in that direction. If Visa/Mastercard had a Singapore owner, that is knowledge economy because nobody else knows how to unroot these 2 big payment companies and they forever earn loads because it is 2.x% per transaction. But... this system breeds people who want to make it big with little effort.