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Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
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lukester
tish
evibot
eraser
Leonard
nofears
dandeana21
Divine
andikong
lawrenceke
Fortec
ForKia
sktan10
newsman
lordhawk
impact2001
greatgazoo
Redbean
26JMC
Cypher
nothing
Pegasus
keigo
ahben
whyeme
29 posters
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Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by whyeme 27th May 2009, 2:39 pm
hi all.
i just sharing what i read from MCF.
some people at MCF have posted that doing the diy insulation for the aircon piping might harm the compressor lifespan in the long run. i really dont know true or not. hope we can find out the truth for the benefit of all forte owners here.
thks
quotes:
1) "Do not insulate your aircon pipes. You will not get a colder aircon and your compressor may need replacement sooner.
First of all, the hot high pressure pipe is the one that actually cools your aircon. The hot liquid refrigerant coming from the aircon compressor is slightly "superheated", it actually needs to cool down a bit before passing through the expansion valve, changing to gas and thus cooling the evaporator coil. Insulating the hot pipe defeats the purpose.
Secondly, the cold low pressure pipe returning to the compressor contains gas and a bit of liquid (in certain cases). This liquid is bad for the compressor which functions best with incoming gas only. So, do not insulate the cold pipe as you need the heat of the engine bay to fully vapourize the refrigerant in the cold pipe. Otherwise, the durability of the compressor will suffer.
Hope this is informative. Pls do not compare a car aircon to a household split unit. A household aircon has insulated pipes because they run through the house. You don't want excess heat from the hot pipe and you don't want condensation from the cold pipe. They are just built for different priorities."
2) "think twice before DIY wrapping of the cold air con piping. if you noticed, the cold air piping has condensation on it when the air con is on. in stock condition ie. no insulation wrapping, the condensation evaporates quickly becos of the hot engine bay. but when you wrap it, the water gets trapped inside and this accelerates corrosion of the piping. piping used in cars is different from those used in home air cons which are more corrosion resistant and hence thermal wrapping is not an issue for house air con cold pipings".
i just sharing what i read from MCF.
some people at MCF have posted that doing the diy insulation for the aircon piping might harm the compressor lifespan in the long run. i really dont know true or not. hope we can find out the truth for the benefit of all forte owners here.
thks
quotes:
1) "Do not insulate your aircon pipes. You will not get a colder aircon and your compressor may need replacement sooner.
First of all, the hot high pressure pipe is the one that actually cools your aircon. The hot liquid refrigerant coming from the aircon compressor is slightly "superheated", it actually needs to cool down a bit before passing through the expansion valve, changing to gas and thus cooling the evaporator coil. Insulating the hot pipe defeats the purpose.
Secondly, the cold low pressure pipe returning to the compressor contains gas and a bit of liquid (in certain cases). This liquid is bad for the compressor which functions best with incoming gas only. So, do not insulate the cold pipe as you need the heat of the engine bay to fully vapourize the refrigerant in the cold pipe. Otherwise, the durability of the compressor will suffer.
Hope this is informative. Pls do not compare a car aircon to a household split unit. A household aircon has insulated pipes because they run through the house. You don't want excess heat from the hot pipe and you don't want condensation from the cold pipe. They are just built for different priorities."
2) "think twice before DIY wrapping of the cold air con piping. if you noticed, the cold air piping has condensation on it when the air con is on. in stock condition ie. no insulation wrapping, the condensation evaporates quickly becos of the hot engine bay. but when you wrap it, the water gets trapped inside and this accelerates corrosion of the piping. piping used in cars is different from those used in home air cons which are more corrosion resistant and hence thermal wrapping is not an issue for house air con cold pipings".
whyeme- Junior Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by ahben 27th May 2009, 3:32 pm
Huh... Alot of bros here already insulated and feel the effects already. My aircon used to be at 21-22 before i could even feel the cool air (not even cold) now at 23-24 is cool already.
ahben- Newbie
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by keigo 27th May 2009, 3:39 pm
"First of all, the hot high pressure pipe is the one that actually cools
your aircon. The hot liquid refrigerant coming from the aircon
compressor is slightly "superheated", it actually needs to cool down a
bit before passing through the expansion valve, changing to gas and
thus cooling the evaporator coil. Insulating the hot pipe defeats the
purpose."
This very phase already make me totally don't believe in what is been written.
your aircon. The hot liquid refrigerant coming from the aircon
compressor is slightly "superheated", it actually needs to cool down a
bit before passing through the expansion valve, changing to gas and
thus cooling the evaporator coil. Insulating the hot pipe defeats the
purpose."
This very phase already make me totally don't believe in what is been written.
keigo- Senior Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by Pegasus 27th May 2009, 4:52 pm
From what i read and understand, the cold piping that you guys have insulated is the return path from which the cold gas has already done it's job keeping the car interior cool via the evaporator.
Maintaining the coldness of the return path will only make your compressor 'work harder' (to compress & heat up the gas).
Layout of typical car air con :
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/ownership/tech_center/air.conditioning/ac.diagram.500.jpg
Some reading :
http://www.familycar.com/ac1.htm
Maintaining the coldness of the return path will only make your compressor 'work harder' (to compress & heat up the gas).
Layout of typical car air con :
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/ownership/tech_center/air.conditioning/ac.diagram.500.jpg
Some reading :
http://www.familycar.com/ac1.htm
Pegasus- Junior Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by nothing 27th May 2009, 5:48 pm
wow, confused liao..any air-con expert in house?
nothing- Senior Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by Cypher 27th May 2009, 6:16 pm
Pegasus wrote:From what i read and understand, the cold piping that you guys have insulated is the return path from which the cold gas has already done it's job keeping the car interior cool via the evaporator.
Maintaining the coldness of the return path will only make your compressor 'work harder' (to compress & heat up the gas).
Layout of typical car air con :
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/ownership/tech_center/air.conditioning/ac.diagram.500.jpg
Some reading :
http://www.familycar.com/ac1.htm[/quote[/url" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">]
Bro the return line is laden with heat, how can the line condense?
Step six in this article from which you got the diagram.
[url=http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/techcenter/articles/46869/article.html]http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/techcenter/articles/46869/article.html
Cypher- Junior Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by 26JMC 27th May 2009, 6:54 pm
[quote="weeza77"]
Pegasus wrote:From what i read and understand, the cold piping that you guys have insulated is the return path from which the cold gas has already done it's job keeping the car interior cool via the evaporator.
Maintaining the coldness of the return path will only make your compressor 'work harder' (to compress & heat up the gas).
Layout of typical car air con :
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/ownership/tech_center/air.conditioning/ac.diagram.500.jpg
Some reading :
http://www.familycar.com/ac1.htm[/quote]
Bro the return line is laden with heat, how can the line condense?
Step six in this article from which you got the diagram.
http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/techcenter/articles/46869/article.html[/quote[/url" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">]
[url=http://www.ceratoforte.forumotion.com/advertisers-f16/goodspeed-jp-pivot-vs-customised-grounding-heat-shield-cai-t255.htm]http://www.ceratoforte.forumotion.com/advertisers-f16/goodspeed-jp-pivot-vs-customised-grounding-heat-shield-cai-t255.htm
26JMC- Newbie
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by Redbean 27th May 2009, 9:13 pm
1) "Do not insulate your aircon pipes. You will not get a colder aircon and your compressor may need replacement sooner.
First of all, the hot high pressure pipe is the one that actually cools your aircon. (Actually it's the cold pipe that cools the aircon. It is the one dat sux in the energy of the air blown into the car, which make it cooler. But of coz he is not wrong. The hot pressure pipe also repel heat into the environment)The hot liquid refrigerant coming from the aircon compressor is slightly "superheated", it actually needs to cool down a bit before passing through the expansion valve, changing to gas and thus cooling the evaporator coil. Insulating the hot pipe defeats the purpose.
Secondly, the cold low pressure pipe returning to the compressor contains gas and a bit of liquid (in certain cases). This liquid is bad for the compressor which functions best with incoming gas only. So, do not insulate the cold pipe as you need the heat of the engine bay to fully vapourize the refrigerant in the cold pipe. Otherwise, the durability of the compressor will suffer.
Hope this is informative. Pls do not compare a car aircon to a household split unit. A household aircon has insulated pipes because they run through the house. You don't want excess heat from the hot pipe and you don't want condensation from the cold pipe. They are just built for different priorities."
2) "think twice before DIY wrapping of the cold air con piping. if you noticed, the cold air piping has condensation on it when the air con is on. in stock condition ie. no insulation wrapping, the condensation evaporates quickly becos of the hot engine bay. but when you wrap it, the water gets trapped inside and this accelerates corrosion of the piping. piping used in cars is different from those used in home air cons which are more corrosion resistant and hence thermal wrapping is not an issue for house air con cold pipings".[/quote]
Erm, actually what he says make sense. In that case, insulation should only be done to the pipping from the expansion valve to the fan area. The pipping that leads to the compressor should be left uncovered so the compressor doesnt overwork. hehe tio boh?
First of all, the hot high pressure pipe is the one that actually cools your aircon. (Actually it's the cold pipe that cools the aircon. It is the one dat sux in the energy of the air blown into the car, which make it cooler. But of coz he is not wrong. The hot pressure pipe also repel heat into the environment)The hot liquid refrigerant coming from the aircon compressor is slightly "superheated", it actually needs to cool down a bit before passing through the expansion valve, changing to gas and thus cooling the evaporator coil. Insulating the hot pipe defeats the purpose.
Secondly, the cold low pressure pipe returning to the compressor contains gas and a bit of liquid (in certain cases). This liquid is bad for the compressor which functions best with incoming gas only. So, do not insulate the cold pipe as you need the heat of the engine bay to fully vapourize the refrigerant in the cold pipe. Otherwise, the durability of the compressor will suffer.
Hope this is informative. Pls do not compare a car aircon to a household split unit. A household aircon has insulated pipes because they run through the house. You don't want excess heat from the hot pipe and you don't want condensation from the cold pipe. They are just built for different priorities."
2) "think twice before DIY wrapping of the cold air con piping. if you noticed, the cold air piping has condensation on it when the air con is on. in stock condition ie. no insulation wrapping, the condensation evaporates quickly becos of the hot engine bay. but when you wrap it, the water gets trapped inside and this accelerates corrosion of the piping. piping used in cars is different from those used in home air cons which are more corrosion resistant and hence thermal wrapping is not an issue for house air con cold pipings".[/quote]
Erm, actually what he says make sense. In that case, insulation should only be done to the pipping from the expansion valve to the fan area. The pipping that leads to the compressor should be left uncovered so the compressor doesnt overwork. hehe tio boh?
Redbean- Junior Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by greatgazoo 27th May 2009, 11:18 pm
In this thread, I'm like attending physics class 
greatgazoo- Senior Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by impact2001 27th May 2009, 11:24 pm
how abt answering this simple thermodynamics questions?
How does a house Air Con unit work?
1) Blowing Cold Air out to make the room cool.
2) Sucking in the hot/warm air into the air con unit to make the room cool.
How does a house Air Con unit work?
1) Blowing Cold Air out to make the room cool.
2) Sucking in the hot/warm air into the air con unit to make the room cool.
impact2001- Moderator
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by keigo 27th May 2009, 11:33 pm
ok correct if I'm wrong.
outside air will be suck into the compressor and then mix with the cool gas which help to cool the air and then blow out into the room with cool air.
outside air will be suck into the compressor and then mix with the cool gas which help to cool the air and then blow out into the room with cool air.
keigo- Senior Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by lordhawk 27th May 2009, 11:52 pm
Not physics class, gazoo. Engineering class. Fluid & mechanical engineering to boot.
lordhawk- Junior Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by greatgazoo 27th May 2009, 11:56 pm
issit, without physics, how you derive mechanic 
greatgazoo- Senior Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by lordhawk 28th May 2009, 12:01 am
Yah, before you know it, impact is talking thermodynamics...wah seh cheem siah... 
lordhawk- Junior Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by impact2001 28th May 2009, 12:09 am
I remember studying hard for the thermodynamics just for the sake of passing... This subject really kills a lot of ppls..
Anyway a simple summary which i extract from how stuff works..
Most people think that air conditioners lower the temperature in their homes simply by pumping cool air in. What's really happening is the warm air from your house is being removed and cycled back in as cooler air. This cycle continues until your thermostat reaches the desired temperature.
An air conditioner is basically a refrigerator without the insulated box. It uses the evaporation of a refrigerant, like Freon, to provide cooling. The mechanics of the Freon evaporation cycle are the same in a refrigerator as in an air conditioner. According to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary Online, the term Freon is generically "used for any of various nonflammable fluorocarbons used as refrigerants and as propellants for aerosols."
Diagram of a typical air conditioner.
This is how the evaporation cycle in an air conditioner works (See How Refrigerators Work for complete details on this cycle):
Anyway a simple summary which i extract from how stuff works..
Most people think that air conditioners lower the temperature in their homes simply by pumping cool air in. What's really happening is the warm air from your house is being removed and cycled back in as cooler air. This cycle continues until your thermostat reaches the desired temperature.
An air conditioner is basically a refrigerator without the insulated box. It uses the evaporation of a refrigerant, like Freon, to provide cooling. The mechanics of the Freon evaporation cycle are the same in a refrigerator as in an air conditioner. According to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary Online, the term Freon is generically "used for any of various nonflammable fluorocarbons used as refrigerants and as propellants for aerosols."
Diagram of a typical air conditioner.
This is how the evaporation cycle in an air conditioner works (See How Refrigerators Work for complete details on this cycle):
- The compressor compresses cool Freon gas, causing it to become hot, high-pressure Freon gas (red in the diagram above).
- This hot gas runs through a set of coils so it can dissipate its heat, and it condenses into a liquid.
- The Freon liquid runs through an expansion valve, and in the process it evaporates to become cold, low-pressure Freon gas (light blue in the diagram above).
- This cold gas runs through a set of coils that allow the gas to absorb heat and cool down the air inside the building.
impact2001- Moderator
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by impact2001 28th May 2009, 12:13 am
Whenever there are some concern for DIY it would be always best to surf more information and think logically whether it work or doesn't works... Getting answer from forum is always like being smoke half half sometimes.. hehe..
impact2001- Moderator
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by greatgazoo 28th May 2009, 12:18 am
I saw this article on "how stuff works" and want to post this too. 
greatgazoo- Senior Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by newsman 28th May 2009, 1:07 am
My AVEO5 was insulated since Month No: ONE.... May 2005.
It has been traded in for my current ride-Forte in April 2009.
A total of 4 yrs in cool effective use.
Aveo5 AirCon was Never being service for the entires 4 yrs too.
One COOL reason n COOL experiences i have...from the horse mouth.
Now just repeat the same insulation in my April 2009 Forte again to enjoy the same Coolness.
It has been traded in for my current ride-Forte in April 2009.
A total of 4 yrs in cool effective use.
Aveo5 AirCon was Never being service for the entires 4 yrs too.
One COOL reason n COOL experiences i have...from the horse mouth.
Now just repeat the same insulation in my April 2009 Forte again to enjoy the same Coolness.
newsman- Junior Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by nothing 28th May 2009, 9:17 am
so the conclusion is that the DIY air-con piping insulation works and will enhance the effectiveness of the air-con system without any adverse effect on the compressor?
nothing- Senior Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by sktan10 28th May 2009, 9:28 am
nothing wrote:so the conclusion is that the DIY air-con piping insulation works and will enhance the effectiveness of the air-con system without any adverse effect on the compressor?
Taken from terios club.
"Hi bro, juz 2 share abt info on this diy mod.
I previously did it on my ride after reading abt it from nissan forums. Wrap the cooling pipe with insulator similar 2 those used by home a/c contractors. After abt 6 mths, a/c not cold. Fault found after a/c mech removed the insulator, freon found leaked from needle-like pitting(corrosion) holes on the aluminium pipe where the insulator was wrapped. Trapped water caused corrosion on aluminium. Then mech told me home a/c pipes r made of copper so more corrosion resistance n due 2 not exposed 2 high heat unlike engine bays, able 2 wrap wif insulators. If this method is gd 4 the coldness, why dun cars manufacturers wrap it in the 1st place. Quite logical explanation from him. But 2 believe or not is up 2 u folks."
Just $2 pipe wrapping i believe manfacturer should be able to do it if is good?
sktan10- Newbie
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by ForKia 28th May 2009, 9:36 am
Hi Guys to clear the air, can someone help to check with the CnC service guy (when doing their first 1K servicing) whether is it OK to insulate the piping?
ForKia- Newbie
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by Cypher 28th May 2009, 10:29 am
ForKia wrote:Hi Guys to clear the air, can someone help to check with the CnC service guy (when doing their first 1K servicing) whether is it OK to insulate the piping?
This is not an authorised mod. In their eyes "illegal".
Cypher- Junior Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by Fortec 28th May 2009, 11:07 am
My two cents.
The air con is definately cooler than previously before insulation done.
For those who r skeptical, you can try the insulation (cost only like less than $5.00), if still unconvinced, you can just take out the insulation.
The air con is definately cooler than previously before insulation done.
For those who r skeptical, you can try the insulation (cost only like less than $5.00), if still unconvinced, you can just take out the insulation.
Fortec- Senior Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by nothing 28th May 2009, 11:49 am
I think there's some effect after the insulation, however the concern most guys having is whether in long run, will there be any adverse effect on the AC system as what mentioned above....
nothing- Senior Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by lawrenceke 28th May 2009, 11:55 am
nothing wrote:I think there's some effect after the insulation, however the concern most guys having is whether in long run, will there be any adverse effect on the AC system as what mentioned above....
nvm.. i check with the service centre when i do the 1K servicing..
lawrenceke- Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by nothing 28th May 2009, 12:12 pm
To remove it is pretty easy since mine secured by cable ties...but those that use glue will be bit messy if really need to remove...
nothing- Senior Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by andikong 28th May 2009, 12:45 pm
sktan10 wrote:nothing wrote:so the conclusion is that the DIY air-con piping insulation works and will enhance the effectiveness of the air-con system without any adverse effect on the compressor?
Taken from terios club.
"Hi bro, juz 2 share abt info on this diy mod.
I previously did it on my ride after reading abt it from nissan forums. Wrap the cooling pipe with insulator similar 2 those used by home a/c contractors. After abt 6 mths, a/c not cold. Fault found after a/c mech removed the insulator, freon found leaked from needle-like pitting(corrosion) holes on the aluminium pipe where the insulator was wrapped. Trapped water caused corrosion on aluminium. Then mech told me home a/c pipes r made of copper so more corrosion resistance n due 2 not exposed 2 high heat unlike engine bays, able 2 wrap wif insulators. If this method is gd 4 the coldness, why dun cars manufacturers wrap it in the 1st place. Quite logical explanation from him. But 2 believe or not is up 2 u folks."
Just $2 pipe wrapping i believe manfacturer should be able to do it if is good?
I presume you did not do a good DIY job on the insulation. As bro Newman wrote in the previous thread, his ride last for almost four years with no such problems. For your informations my 2002 Toyota last for close to 6 1/2 yrs and no need to top up gas & is still working fine, till I scrape it to get this new Forte, Coe too high.
Yes $2 only and the workmanship is free! Who is going to pay the wages.
andikong- Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by newsman 28th May 2009, 1:12 pm
andikong wrote:sktan10 wrote:nothing wrote:so the conclusion is that the DIY air-con piping insulation works and will enhance the effectiveness of the air-con system without any adverse effect on the compressor?
Taken from terios club.
"Hi bro, juz 2 share abt info on this diy mod.
I previously did it on my ride after reading abt it from nissan forums. Wrap the cooling pipe with insulator similar 2 those used by home a/c contractors. After abt 6 mths, a/c not cold. Fault found after a/c mech removed the insulator, freon found leaked from needle-like pitting(corrosion) holes on the aluminium pipe where the insulator was wrapped. Trapped water caused corrosion on aluminium. Then mech told me home a/c pipes r made of copper so more corrosion resistance n due 2 not exposed 2 high heat unlike engine bays, able 2 wrap wif insulators. If this method is gd 4 the coldness, why dun cars manufacturers wrap it in the 1st place. Quite logical explanation from him. But 2 believe or not is up 2 u folks."
Just $2 pipe wrapping i believe manfacturer should be able to do it if is good?
I presume you did not do a good DIY job on the insulation. As bro Newman wrote in the previous thread, his ride last for almost four years with no such problems. For your informations my 2002 Toyota last for close to 6 1/2 yrs and no need to top up gas & is still working fine, till I scrape it to get this new Forte, Coe too high.
Yes $2 only and the workmanship is free! Who is going to pay the wages.
My Aveo5 was insulated with Winter Anti tubing n overwarp with Aluminium foil. The same type my wife use at her Gas stove. The foil probably help to keep the condensation away. Wil do the same again. Andy n I are comfortable n responsible 4 our own action. U hav a choice !! See my AVEO Insulation here>>>.
newsman- Junior Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by nothing 28th May 2009, 2:08 pm
No worry, we r adults and will not start the finger pointing game when things happen...Just want to find out more whether what sktan10 posted was true and the issue was due to the wrapping of insulation material....
nothing- Senior Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by nothing 28th May 2009, 2:11 pm
andikong wrote:sktan10 wrote:nothing wrote:so the conclusion is that the DIY air-con piping insulation works and will enhance the effectiveness of the air-con system without any adverse effect on the compressor?
Taken from terios club.
"Hi bro, juz 2 share abt info on this diy mod.
I previously did it on my ride after reading abt it from nissan forums. Wrap the cooling pipe with insulator similar 2 those used by home a/c contractors. After abt 6 mths, a/c not cold. Fault found after a/c mech removed the insulator, freon found leaked from needle-like pitting(corrosion) holes on the aluminium pipe where the insulator was wrapped. Trapped water caused corrosion on aluminium. Then mech told me home a/c pipes r made of copper so more corrosion resistance n due 2 not exposed 2 high heat unlike engine bays, able 2 wrap wif insulators. If this method is gd 4 the coldness, why dun cars manufacturers wrap it in the 1st place. Quite logical explanation from him. But 2 believe or not is up 2 u folks."
Just $2 pipe wrapping i believe manfacturer should be able to do it if is good?
I presume you did not do a good DIY job on the insulation. As bro Newman wrote in the previous thread, his ride last for almost four years with no such problems. For your informations my 2002 Toyota last for close to 6 1/2 yrs and no need to top up gas & is still working fine, till I scrape it to get this new Forte, Coe too high.
Yes $2 only and the workmanship is free! Who is going to pay the wages.
Hi, u directing the question to me or?
Anyway, how far can one be in term of wrapping a small dia. alu pipe with the armalfex tubing and securing it with cable ties..unless that terios owner was using something else 
...
nothing- Senior Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by Divine 28th May 2009, 2:20 pm
hmm so what is the conclusion ?? to wrap or not to wrap? problem leh lolx
Divine- Senior Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by nothing 28th May 2009, 2:24 pm
Divine wrote:hmm so what is the conclusion ?? to wrap or not to wrap? problem leh lolx
Up to individual, but I recommend securing it with cable ties rather than using glue,so that if u want to experiment, after one month on the road, can remove certain portion and look at the condition of the alu pipe...if u apply glue, u can't really see and when need to remove, will be quite tedious.....just my opinion
nothing- Senior Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by Divine 28th May 2009, 4:05 pm
i nv use glue... anyone wrap more then 1 month already? take some pic lay.. uncle andy?
Divine- Senior Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by dandeana21 28th May 2009, 5:22 pm
true enuf that the aluminium may corrode after some time if water stays within the insulation wrap, why not poke some holes below or remove some part of the insulation so that water may flow out? dun noe if that works and who knows the coolness effect may not be compromised? juz wondering... 
dandeana21- Senior Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by nofears 28th May 2009, 5:31 pm
For my old Kia Cerato, it was having the condensation on the pipes and I was adviced by the mechanic to use insulation tape to cover all the dripping pipes. This way no moisture has direct contact with the pipes. Also I just used insulation tape only and the change was huge because I always get complaints/complements from my passenger that my aircon is so cold eventhough my ride is quite old.
I was thinking about doing this insulation DIY, but I might just ask the C&C mechanic again about it when I collect my new ride or during the 1k servicing.
I was thinking about doing this insulation DIY, but I might just ask the C&C mechanic again about it when I collect my new ride or during the 1k servicing.
nofears- Junior Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by andikong 28th May 2009, 6:07 pm
Divine wrote:i nv use glue... anyone wrap more then 1 month already? take some pic lay.. uncle andy?
My air-con pipe insulations is more than one month oredi, so far no water condensation. What we did is totally airtight
insulations, no air gap, no heat or water can enter the aircon piping and hense no condensation effect. we did a double insulations with the adhesive tape of the same material. As me and bro Newsman have mention our track record proves it. So let it be!
andikong- Member
nofears- Junior Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by Leonard 28th May 2009, 6:23 pm
i think proven liao . imo i think the insulation must be have no gap . tat 1 more or less prevent quite a no. of unwanted factors .
Leonard- Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by andikong 28th May 2009, 6:24 pm
Divine wrote:i nv use glue... anyone wrap more then 1 month already? take some pic lay.. uncle andy?
Yes you never use the adhesive glue and just use cable ties right. So there are big or small gap in between the cable ties and the rubber insulator is not totally sealed and covered.
We sealed the split up rubber hose and tie both ends with cable ties, then wrap the both ends with with the insulator
adhesive tape, so it is very air tight. On top of that we even insulate the whole length of the rubber hose with the adhesive tape for double protection in case it split open. After than we reinforce the whole hose with anther layer of insulator tape, that it, job done.
I think you take a short cut DIY by using only the cable ties, no, no, that is not enough to seal the piping, it bounds to have hot air leakage between the gap.
andikong- Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by andikong 28th May 2009, 6:27 pm
Leonard wrote:i think proven liao . imo i think the insulation must be have no gap . tat 1 more or less prevent quite a no. of unwanted factors .
Young bro you are very clever and logical. You learn Physics in sch yeh!
andikong- Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by Leonard 28th May 2009, 6:44 pm
i think pretty std larh .
and yes i did take physics and chem (:
hehehhse , now i juz hope the next meet up can do DIY (Pt. 2)
and yes i did take physics and chem (:
hehehhse , now i juz hope the next meet up can do DIY (Pt. 2)
Leonard- Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by nothing 28th May 2009, 8:18 pm
in that case, must redo liao, wanted to do the easy way, turn out not the right way..thanks for the clarifications
nothing- Senior Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by greatgazoo 28th May 2009, 9:26 pm
Divine wrote:hmm so what is the conclusion ?? to wrap or not to wrap? problem leh lolx
If you take note and look at other brands of the car, almost all of them are wrap up and some are like rubber type insulation.
Conclusion, pls wrap up to help the compressor do less work to cool the car.
greatgazoo- Senior Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by eraser 29th May 2009, 2:33 pm
First of all, the hot high pressure pipe is the one that actually cools your aircon. The hot liquid refrigerant coming from the aircon compressor is slightly "superheated", it actually needs to cool down a bit before passing through the expansion valve, changing to gas and thus cooling the evaporator coil. Insulating the hot pipe defeats the purpose.
What I understand is Freon cools to become liquid and changes into gas when hot, thus taking away the heat. Same theory as alcohol wipes, liquid when touches your skin, cold after they vanish. So no way the freon is still liquid when hot.
What I understand is Freon cools to become liquid and changes into gas when hot, thus taking away the heat. Same theory as alcohol wipes, liquid when touches your skin, cold after they vanish. So no way the freon is still liquid when hot.
eraser- Junior Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by Leonard 29th May 2009, 2:37 pm
greatgazoo wrote:Divine wrote:hmm so what is the conclusion ?? to wrap or not to wrap? problem leh lolx
If you take note and look at other brands of the car, almost all of them are wrap up and some are like rubber type insulation.
Conclusion, pls wrap up to help the compressor do less work to cool the car.
u forget 1 more bottom line .
DO IT RIGHT not juz do it .
Leonard- Member
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by evibot 29th May 2009, 6:38 pm
How about spraying a coat of 3M rubberized undercoat on the pipe before armaflex insulator since the coat protects from rust and corrosion? This way even if there's air around the pipe and insulator should not be an issue?
evibot- Newbie
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by ahben 29th May 2009, 10:52 pm
andikong wrote:Divine wrote:i nv use glue... anyone wrap more then 1 month already? take some pic lay.. uncle andy?
My air-con pipe insulations is more than one month oredi, so far no water condensation. What we did is totally airtight
insulations, no air gap, no heat or water can enter the aircon piping and hense no condensation effect. we did a double insulations with the adhesive tape of the same material. As me and bro Newsman have mention our track record proves it. So let it be!
Zomg... No wonder u guys are running your aircon at 25 and its cool. Hmmm mine's at 23
but at least its better than when it first came. I had to put it down to 21. Sigh... Back to the carpark to have this redone.
ahben- Newbie
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by ahben 29th May 2009, 11:00 pm
sktan10 wrote:nothing wrote:so the conclusion is that the DIY air-con piping insulation works and will enhance the effectiveness of the air-con system without any adverse effect on the compressor?
Taken from terios club.
"Hi bro, juz 2 share abt info on this diy mod.
I previously did it on my ride after reading abt it from nissan forums. Wrap the cooling pipe with insulator similar 2 those used by home a/c contractors. After abt 6 mths, a/c not cold. Fault found after a/c mech removed the insulator, freon found leaked from needle-like pitting(corrosion) holes on the aluminium pipe where the insulator was wrapped. Trapped water caused corrosion on aluminium. Then mech told me home a/c pipes r made of copper so more corrosion resistance n due 2 not exposed 2 high heat unlike engine bays, able 2 wrap wif insulators. If this method is gd 4 the coldness, why dun cars manufacturers wrap it in the 1st place. Quite logical explanation from him. But 2 believe or not is up 2 u folks."
Just $2 pipe wrapping i believe manfacturer should be able to do it if is good?
Then again. If i remember my chemistry correctly. When aluminium react with water it will corrode to form aluminium oxide. And it shouldn't deteriorate the piping any further, unlike iron. Where if they rust, they corrode till the core.
Extract from website:
Aluminium's
corrosion resistance
Untreated aluminium has very good corrosion resistance in most environments. This is primarily because aluminium spontaneously forms a thin but effective oxide layer that prevents further oxidation. Aluminium oxide is impermeable and, unlike the oxide layers on many other metals, it adheres strongly to the parent metal. If damaged mechanically, aluminium's oxide layer repairs itself immediately. This oxide layer is one of the main reasons for aluminium's good corrosion properties. The layer is stable in the general pH range 4 – 9. In strongly acid or alkaline environments, aluminium normally corrodes relatively rapidly.
I don't think the water in the tubing is acidic or alkaline rite....
ahben- Newbie
Re: Concerns on aircon piping insulation diy
by greatgazoo 30th May 2009, 12:21 am
Wah this is really science class
greatgazoo- Senior Member
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